Gray Matias is Treantly's head of recruitment. He has worked in outsourcing and recruitment since 2010, from the BPO industry and US real estate refinancing to leading the team that screens and endorses every Treantly candidate.
Highlight reel
2:31 · 4 chapters
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Victor and Gray dig into how Treantly recruits: what AI can and cannot do, why attitude beats skills, and what it really takes to succeed working from home.
"Today we're sitting down with Gray Matias. He's my head of recruitment."
Victor introduces Gray Matias, Treantly's head of recruitment, in the outsourcing space since 2010, and gets him to admit his first-time interview nerves.
"Most of my career really I was exposed into in-person recruitment."
Gray walks through his path: the BPO industry, US real estate refinancing, then human resources and recruitment, the years behind how he screens talent today.
"It's very vital and fundamental for us to be able to do human-to-human recruitment."
Gray on how Treantly recruits today: AI pre-screens hundreds of resumes a day, and human recruiters who know the culture make the match.
"Skills are easily taught. But attitude wise or, you know, their commitment, it's not a skill that can be transferred."
The vetting philosophy behind every Treantly placement: tools and processes can be trained; commitment and attitude are what we actually screen for.
"A client can easily scan through it within five minutes that these are the things that I'm looking for in this particular person."
Why Treantly rewrites every endorsement into a straightforward internal CV: clients see strengths, tools, and relevant experience at a glance.
"Not necessarily feeding them the answer, but helping them out on how they can structure their answers."
Before every client interview, Gray's team runs a prep call with the candidate: coaching on structure and positioning, never scripted answers.
"It takes a lot of mental fortitude for you to be able to survive in this space."
Gray pushes back on the course-seller pitch that remote work is easy: surviving as a remote professional takes real mental fortitude, and that is what Treantly screens for.
[00:00:00] Victor: Hi there.
[00:00:00] Gray Matias: Today we're sitting down with Gray Matias.
[00:00:02] Gray Matias: He's my head of recruitment at Treantly.
[00:00:05] Gray Matias: He's been in the outsourcing space since 2010.
[00:00:08] Gray Matias: And we're going to dig into his brain and see what he has to share.
[00:00:13] Victor: Gray, how's it going today?
[00:00:14] Gray Matias: I'm good.
[00:00:15] Gray Matias: Thanks for having me.
[00:00:15] Victor: How are you feeling?
[00:00:17] Gray Matias: I'm a bit nervous, but I'm excited.
[00:00:19] Victor: Why are you nervous?
[00:00:20] Gray Matias: This is my first time doing this.
[00:00:23] Victor: You look like you're clenching your chair, right?
[00:00:25] Gray Matias: That's okay.
[00:00:25] Victor: I am.
[00:00:26] Gray Matias: So you've been in the outsourcing space for a long time.
[00:00:30] Victor: Can you just tell me, tell the listeners quickly about your career journey up to this point?
[00:00:36] Victor: Yeah, sure.
[00:00:38] Gray Matias: I started my journey in the outsourcing space, primarily in the BPO industry.
[00:00:43] Gray Matias: And I also worked in the real estate in the U.S. and refinancing.
[00:00:50] Victor: Afterwards, went back to the Philippines.
[00:00:53] Gray Matias: Joined the VA space and afterwards really dabbled into human resources and recruitment most of my years.
[00:01:01] Gray Matias: So primarily aside right now doing outsourcing for the virtual space, but most of my career really I was exposed into in-person recruitment.
[00:01:14] Victor: For the BPO?
[00:01:14] Victor: Yeah, for the BPO.
[00:01:16] Gray Matias: Okay, so for listeners that are not...
[00:01:19] Gray Matias: aware of what BPO means.
[00:01:21] Victor: Can you explain what BPO is?
[00:01:22] Victor: Yeah, so it's a business process outsource.
[00:01:24] Gray Matias: Most of the companies internationally, like in the US, Canada, or most parts of the world, go here in the Philippines and do outsourcing.
[00:01:34] Gray Matias: So usually call centers, back-end office type of jobs, and sorts of stuff.
[00:01:42] Victor: So you're thinking like your Bank of America, Verizon, AT&T.
[00:01:47] Gray Matias: In Canada, you have Telus, Hertz, I think QuickBooks, and any sort of e-commerce when you need support, you're calling, you're actually speaking to someone from the Philippines.
[00:01:57] Gray Matias: Definitely.
[00:01:57] Victor: Okay, I see.
[00:01:58] Victor: But Philippines is not the only region that does this, right?
[00:02:01] Victor: Exactly.
[00:02:01] Victor: But I think we're the strongest in terms of...
[00:02:05] Gray Matias: Outsourcing space because Philippines is quite popular in terms of having talents who speak English with neutral accents.
[00:02:16] Gray Matias: So that's the reason why most companies prefer outsourcing here in comparison to other countries.
[00:02:21] Victor: Okay, understood.
[00:02:23] Gray Matias: Yeah, I've noticed that because I live here now and the young people, their parents, their number one complaint is they tend to speak English before they speak Tagalog.
[00:02:34] Victor: at home.
[00:02:35] Gray Matias: I'm looking at the videographers.
[00:02:36] Victor: You guys speak English before Tagalog or you guys speak Tagalog first?
[00:02:40] Victor: Okay, okay.
[00:02:41] Gray Matias: But a lot of kids now I hear like the very young ones, you know, maybe five, six, seven years old, it's hard to get them to speak their native tongue at home, which is kind of a shame.
[00:02:51] Gray Matias: And it's hard for them to pass the classes as well.
[00:02:54] Victor: Here it's very hard.
[00:02:55] Gray Matias: Yeah, I think nowadays, a lot of kids would often go to YouTube in learning the language.
[00:03:02] Gray Matias: Yeah, but yeah, before, it's quite the thing of learning Tagalog in streets and also at home.
[00:03:09] Victor: Streets, I like it.
[00:03:12] Victor: Okay, so can you walk us through your day-to-day right now?
[00:03:15] Gray Matias: You are our recruitment director at Treantly, so just...
[00:03:20] Victor: Walk me through your day-to-day and what do you do?
[00:03:22] Victor: What are you on the hook for, basically?
[00:03:24] Gray Matias: Primarily, my three-goal daily is to be able to first manage my team of recruiters, checking in with them, ensuring that all leads that we're handling are all covered, and at the same time, checking in with their interviews and also reviewing endorsements.
[00:03:43] Victor: So primarily that's one goal.
[00:03:45] Gray Matias: The next is I'm also the go-to person in terms of strategizing, learning our different platforms, and also...
[00:03:56] Gray Matias: studying more on how we can better approach all of the types of requisitions that we have primarily we cater most i mean we cater any types of requisition there is i mean any types of job openings that they have so primarily we're not singled out in terms of just one niche so it's primarily my job as well to ensure that we find the right match in terms of talents here in the philippines whether which platform there is so
[00:04:25] Gray Matias: That's also one responsibility that I handle.
[00:04:29] Gray Matias: And also I do client management and collaboration with other departments.
[00:04:33] Gray Matias: So that's usually how my day runs on a daily basis.
[00:04:36] Victor: Okay.
[00:04:36] Victor: I'm just curious.
[00:04:38] Victor: Do you find the client management side of it more difficult than the recruitment side?
[00:04:43] Gray Matias: Well, I'm used to managing clients before since I work in refinancing in the real estate.
[00:04:51] Gray Matias: So I kind of know how to manage clients in terms of business perspective.
[00:04:56] Gray Matias: So I would say it's more difficult to manage my team because, of course, they have different skill sets.
[00:05:04] Gray Matias: They have different quirks.
[00:05:06] Victor: They have different...
[00:05:09] Gray Matias: management styles or, you know, in terms of how they approach work.
[00:05:13] Gray Matias: So mostly it's also my responsibility to ensure that they're performing at their best.
[00:05:18] Gray Matias: And I am the go-to person who would motivate them in doing such and, you know, having an open communication because usually managing clients is very straightforward.
[00:05:27] Gray Matias: You deal with what they need.
[00:05:29] Gray Matias: You tell them if it's doable or not.
[00:05:31] Gray Matias: And afterwards, you assure them that this is something we can do for them.
[00:05:35] Gray Matias: Unlike with my team, sometimes they have preference in how they do stuff.
[00:05:40] Gray Matias: And it's your job to decipher if it's something that's going to work out or no.
[00:05:45] Gray Matias: And tell them if it's something that they need to adjust or if it's something that they can continue doing so.
[00:05:51] Gray Matias: I see.
[00:05:52] Victor: Yeah.
[00:05:53] Victor: I want to ask you if you like to use the carrot or the stick, but we can save that for later.
[00:05:58] Victor: Can you just be specific and walk us through like one role that you guys are working on now and what that whole process looks like from beginning to finish?
[00:06:09] Gray Matias: So from the moment the client comes and says, Hey, I would like to look for this person from the Philippines.
[00:06:16] Victor: Just walk us through that.
[00:06:18] Gray Matias: Well, I have one client in mind right now that I've been working quite closely.
[00:06:24] Gray Matias: So they are a cybersecurity company in the US.
[00:06:28] Gray Matias: So right now, we are currently looking for senior IT infrastructure for them.
[00:06:35] Gray Matias: So before, we're sourcing...
[00:06:39] Gray Matias: cybersecurity roles for them right now since we're doing a great relationship with the client.
[00:06:44] Victor: So they've decided to expand the need into their IT infrastructure.
[00:06:49] Gray Matias: So right now we are in the process of getting the right talent because there were changes in the job description recently that was brought out during the time we're in.
[00:06:59] Gray Matias: We're doing the interviews because I think they were looking for someone who is...
[00:07:07] Gray Matias: also kind of knowledgeable in the SOC area or in the cybersecurity field.
[00:07:12] Gray Matias: And at the same time, who is knowledgeable in the infrastructure and IT infrastructure.
[00:07:16] Gray Matias: So it's a bit a combination of that aspect.
[00:07:20] Victor: So we had to recalibrate our sourcing efforts in finding the right people.
[00:07:24] Gray Matias: It was a bit challenging, but we're happy that, you know, we're able to, we're lucky to find, you know, really good talents here in the Philippines who does have a background in both.
[00:07:33] Gray Matias: So, you know, we just go back and forth with the client informing them with or informing them with the progress.
[00:07:40] Gray Matias: And at the same time, we also make sure that we're able to process them.
[00:07:45] Gray Matias: in a manner that we're able to submit during, within the timeframe of our expectations in terms of endorsements.
[00:07:52] Gray Matias: So, you know, it's doing well right now and hopefully we'll be able to close more and, you know, provide more talents for them.
[00:08:00] Gray Matias: Because based on my talk with the client, they're looking into transferring their operations here in the Philippines.
[00:08:07] Gray Matias: So we're quite excited with that.
[00:08:09] Victor: I see.
[00:08:10] Victor: So just to double click on that.
[00:08:14] Victor: Besides the change management, first of all, do you find the clients change their requests very often where they try to add things to it or take things away from the job description?
[00:08:24] Gray Matias: Based on my observation, usually what happens is it changes when there are a series of interviews happening where it's not just one person who is doing the decision making.
[00:08:36] Victor: If there are any...
[00:08:38] Gray Matias: like departments who need to screen the candidates like twice or thrice.
[00:08:43] Gray Matias: Across interviews.
[00:08:44] Victor: Exactly.
[00:08:45] Gray Matias: So sometimes that's where this happens wherein we are kind of re-evaluating the job description based on their assessment.
[00:08:54] Victor: from the candidates that were submitting and we'd had to recalibrate.
[00:08:58] Gray Matias: But sometimes we also do inform the client that if it's something that's not that crucial, maybe it's something that they can also do trainings or perhaps tackle down along the road when the candidate is already hired, because usually you're not gonna be able to find like 100% perfect match.
[00:09:20] Gray Matias: And it really is important when clients are open in training and at the same time,
[00:09:24] Gray Matias: they have a set of plan, onboarding plan for the candidates.
[00:09:31] Gray Matias: Yeah, that's a really interesting point that you bring up because especially, so this client that you mentioned, I'm aware of them.
[00:09:37] Gray Matias: They're more enterprise scale, larger institutional client with...
[00:09:44] Victor: you know, proper governance departments.
[00:09:46] Victor: We often also get smaller businesses that come to us and they're looking for a virtual assistant, right?
[00:09:53] Gray Matias: And it's, I hate this term because it doesn't describe anything.
[00:09:58] Victor: And so, you know, on the sales and marketing side, our number one question we get is what does a virtual assistant actually do?
[00:10:04] Gray Matias: So what we find is that clients actually end up using the interview as a discovery process, which is totally okay.
[00:10:13] Gray Matias: So they'll meet the person.
[00:10:15] Gray Matias: Of course, everyone's an individual.
[00:10:16] Gray Matias: So let's say they interview three or four people.
[00:10:19] Victor: They have an idea of what a virtual assistant can do.
[00:10:21] Gray Matias: But by the time they meet the person, they're like, oh, you actually also graduated with accountancy, Bachelor of Science in accountancy.
[00:10:29] Victor: Or...
[00:10:30] Gray Matias: you know, in university, you did this project where you had to speak in front of 500 people.
[00:10:35] Gray Matias: Okay.
[00:10:35] Victor: Interesting.
[00:10:36] Gray Matias: And then they start to kind of re reconstruct the role that way.
[00:10:39] Victor: Okay.
[00:10:39] Victor: Very interesting.
[00:10:39] Gray Matias: So what would you say the overall timeline is then for say a technical requisition like that with the changes, with the interviews, with the background checks.
[00:10:50] Victor: So from the beginning to the higher date, roughly how long do you normally see?
[00:10:54] Gray Matias: Yeah, usually if it's a general role, we're able to endorse or provide candidates within a week.
[00:11:02] Victor: So just like five business days.
[00:11:03] Gray Matias: But if it's like a technical role, you know, requires a specific skill, we usually tell the client, you know, to provide a seven to 10 days for us to be able to find a candidate for them.
[00:11:14] Gray Matias: But if there are any changes, you know, usually it takes up to like three weeks for us to be able to find the candidate.
[00:11:21] Victor: But we're very happy and proud of that.
[00:11:24] Gray Matias: We have a strong bench pool of candidates, primarily in the general roles.
[00:11:30] Victor: We're able to submit quickly right now.
[00:11:33] Gray Matias: So, you know, we are leaning towards right now in discovering more talents on the technical side so that we'll be able to also bump up our talent pool for those type of needs.
[00:11:47] Victor: And so when the client interviews the candidates, do you sit in on those calls?
[00:11:51] Victor: Yes, definitely.
[00:11:53] Gray Matias: But usually the process is the recruiter or me would join in the call.
[00:11:59] Gray Matias: But we turn off our cameras during the time when they're interviewing candidates so that they can focus to each other.
[00:12:05] Gray Matias: And we're just at the background listening.
[00:12:07] Victor: Okay.
[00:12:07] Gray Matias: And just for everyone listening, I should admit that I used to do this as well.
[00:12:10] Gray Matias: When I started the company, I would participate in interviews.
[00:12:14] Gray Matias: I have the camera turned off.
[00:12:17] Victor: And I was just listening.
[00:12:18] Victor: And sometimes I'm just sitting there like biting my knuckles because, and I want to ask you about this because the interview styles in the East and the West are so different, right?
[00:12:29] Gray Matias: Like, and I'll let you answer that.
[00:12:31] Gray Matias: But sometimes it's really uncomfortable for me to sit there and listen.
[00:12:35] Victor: to the candidate's answer.
[00:12:37] Gray Matias: Not because they're not qualified, but just because I feel like it's two different languages being spoken and then it just feels almost cringe.
[00:12:45] Victor: Do you know what I'm talking about?
[00:12:46] Victor: Can you elaborate on that?
[00:12:47] Victor: Yeah, of course.
[00:12:49] Victor: I too also, you know, feel that way sometimes.
[00:12:52] Gray Matias: Especially, I do have a pre-notion myself on how I would answer the question, perhaps.
[00:12:58] Gray Matias: So sometimes when you're not satisfied on how the candidates provide their answer or how they position themselves, you sometimes cringe out.
[00:13:05] Gray Matias: But of course, that's the reason why we usually have a touch base or a prep call with candidates so that prior the client interview, so that we'll be able to help them out on how they position themselves.
[00:13:18] Gray Matias: how to answer difficult questions, situational questions, not necessarily feeding them the answer, but helping them out on how they can structure their answers, on how they can position if it's something that they don't have a direct experience, but rather still become their strength, not their weaknesses.
[00:13:38] Victor: What's one coaching cue that you give in a candidate on these prep calls?
[00:13:43] Gray Matias: Like you mentioned that you'll give them some guidance.
[00:13:45] Gray Matias: You're not feeding them the answers, but you're giving them some tips.
[00:13:49] Gray Matias: Give me an example.
[00:13:50] Victor: Sure.
[00:13:51] Victor: Especially sometimes candidates would just often answer yes or no if a client says, do you have experience in this field?
[00:14:00] Gray Matias: And yes, they would just answer yes or no.
[00:14:02] Victor: And we often tell them that it's like...
[00:14:07] Gray Matias: When you reply yes, make sure that you back it up with the experience and walking through them how it helped in your experience.
[00:14:17] Gray Matias: If it's no, tell them the closest experience that they have that can be related to that question and, you know, kind of circle in that.
[00:14:28] Victor: It's kind of the same field that you're also work with in your experience.
[00:14:31] Gray Matias: So it's not going to be a problem if, you know, if it's something that's also crucial in their role right now that they're looking for and they'll be able to adapt quickly because of that experience.
[00:14:41] Victor: Do you also prep the clients about the candidates answers or debrief with them?
[00:14:48] Victor: Because there's also a disconnect that side, right?
[00:14:51] Victor: Do you say anything to the clients to help them understand the candidates or mostly on the candidate side?
[00:14:55] Victor: Usually it happens post-interview.
[00:14:58] Gray Matias: If they have any questions, if there are parts of the interviews that are quite unclear to them, that's the time we decide for the candidate's answer.
[00:15:08] Gray Matias: And mostly if a client is a first-timer in hiring virtual assistants or talents from
[00:15:15] Gray Matias: The Philippines, we also help them in terms of what are the questions they can ask prior joining.
[00:15:22] Victor: Because sometimes the client would be upfront that I don't know what are the questions that I should be asking?
[00:15:27] Victor: What should I expect during interview?
[00:15:28] Victor: So we, you know, kind of tell them how to prepare.
[00:15:32] Gray Matias: But most of the time it really happens post interview in helping out the client decipher which is the better choice for them, but not necessarily pushing someone
[00:15:43] Gray Matias: In terms of like this candidate is better because, but rather helping the client decide in terms of their needs, like telling them that in your job description, you need someone who can organize your calendar, you know, leaning towards a candidate that has more experience in those fields.
[00:16:00] Victor: So, you know, just really guiding the client in terms of.
[00:16:04] Gray Matias: making the right decision because sometimes a client would just prefer someone who speaks really well but doesn't have the strongest experience because they believe that they can easily communicate.
[00:16:19] Gray Matias: I want to add to that because for sure, you know,
[00:16:22] Victor: even though I run this business, I'm myself a client, right?
[00:16:25] Gray Matias: You know, I hire people from my own team and I fall for that fallacy because when I speak to someone and if they just sound very fluent in English and they're conversant and they don't call me sir or po and I just feel like, oh, I'm just talking to someone I'm very familiar with.
[00:16:43] Victor: And I tend to feel like I can hire them.
[00:16:45] Gray Matias: And that's actually a problem because I've hired people this way and I didn't actually scrutinize their experience.
[00:16:51] Gray Matias: So I've mistaken for like a cultural familiarity for competency.
[00:16:55] Victor: So that's interesting.
[00:16:58] Gray Matias: And I will also just add that, you know, I've, I've done a lot of things in this business, like speak to irate clients, uh, deal with, you know, very bad situations, but still one of the hardest things for me is to sit in on these interview calls just because
[00:17:13] Victor: you know, the gap is so different, right?
[00:17:15] Victor: I mean, like, so taking one step back, I want to talk about the CVs.
[00:17:18] Victor: What do you see from like a CV resume writing perspective that's different from how people do it in the Philippines here versus maybe what clients are used to in the West?
[00:17:29] Gray Matias: I'll start by saying there's no template that's followed here in the Philippines.
[00:17:35] Gray Matias: I think a lot of people go to, and this is also a hot take because sometimes talents here in the Philippines would usually use the ones that are available online.
[00:17:48] Gray Matias: Maybe they think that the more colorful it is or the more fancier it is, there is the higher chance of them.
[00:17:56] Victor: being noticed by HR or the recruitment.
[00:18:00] Gray Matias: But in my personal experience, we don't usually often recommend those because those are not ADS friendly or our talent applicant trackers or tools that we use.
[00:18:13] Gray Matias: And at the same time, it's hard for us to be able to really dig through their resumes or CVs using those templates because...
[00:18:22] Gray Matias: It has different, you know, the information is all over the place.
[00:18:26] Gray Matias: It's not easy for the eyes to glance through quickly.
[00:18:30] Gray Matias: Just to give an idea, we scan through hundreds of resumes daily.
[00:18:34] Gray Matias: So it is your job as an applicant to be able to ensure that in one glance, I'll be able to see the most important.
[00:18:43] Gray Matias: things in your resume and easily I can pre-screen and pre-qualify you to the next phase.
[00:18:50] Gray Matias: If I need like 20 minutes or 30 minutes just to be able to scan through your CV, that's already an automatic no for me.
[00:18:58] Gray Matias: So yeah, that's one thing.
[00:19:00] Victor: I think a lot of Filipinos use the fancy CVs.
[00:19:03] Gray Matias: I usually would tell them this feedback during interview that, you know, especially if they don't proceed to the next phase, that it might help if they would reorganize in their CVs, like using a Harvard template or a more straightforward type of...
[00:19:21] Gray Matias: so that recruiters would easily decipher their resumes and prescreen them.
[00:19:28] Gray Matias: That's also the reason why during our endorsement, we do create a separate CV internally for the clients.
[00:19:36] Gray Matias: A more straightforward type of CV highlights their experience.
[00:19:42] Victor: How long have they been in the business?
[00:19:43] Gray Matias: The tools that they're using, especially if it's a client requirement.
[00:19:47] Victor: And at the same time, their background.
[00:19:48] Gray Matias: So easily, it's a kind of CV wherein it shows their strengths.
[00:19:54] Gray Matias: And at the same time, a client can easily scan through it within five minutes that these are the things that I'm looking for in this particular person.
[00:20:03] Gray Matias: And once I interview them, I already know what to ask in terms of questions and whatnot.
[00:20:09] Gray Matias: When I was recruiting in the early days of this business, I would often notice candidates put information that I'm not used to seeing on the CV.
[00:20:17] Gray Matias: Like they'll put their age, their marital status, sometimes their religion, even their body weight on the CV.
[00:20:24] Gray Matias: And then the full address and then the full details of the references, which is uncommon in the West.
[00:20:29] Gray Matias: In the West, we would just say available upon request.
[00:20:32] Victor: Why do you think this practice exists here?
[00:20:35] Gray Matias: Well, in the early days here in the Philippines, those are really a requirement, especially during early 2000s.
[00:20:41] Gray Matias: Even I before, when I was applying after my graduation, I would tend to put those information because that's the usual information the HRs here locally would want you to put in our resumes.
[00:20:57] Gray Matias: I think because of the booming of the outsourcing industry, we're in most of the practices from the West are also brought here.
[00:21:09] Gray Matias: And we're often told during the early times of outsourcing that, hey, this shouldn't be normal to put in the resume because you're already giving like a pre-judgment in your application.
[00:21:26] Gray Matias: I think it really evolved in a way wherein we're leaning towards more on how the Westerns would screen your resumes.
[00:21:33] Victor: Which is, I think, a good thing.
[00:21:35] Gray Matias: Right now, there's not much of people who would put their picture in their resumes because sometimes they're being judged ahead prior meeting them.
[00:21:45] Gray Matias: So, you know, things like that.
[00:21:47] Victor: Because I think it really evolved in a way wherein...
[00:21:52] Gray Matias: We're kind of sensitive now in some personal topics, personal aspects, that HR and recruitment does not touch those things anymore.
[00:22:03] Gray Matias: And just really lean towards your experience, your educational background.
[00:22:08] Gray Matias: Your location, if you're able to, if you're amenable to work within the location, you know, things like that, or you as well being healthy in the job.
[00:22:17] Gray Matias: So primarily, it's now more focused on those aspects in comparison to before, wherein if you are expected to...
[00:22:26] Gray Matias: work in an e-commerce or you're expected to work in a mall or something like that, they would always tend to focus on more like on a pleasing personality, you know, things like that.
[00:22:36] Gray Matias: So yeah, I think it really helped a lot as well, having the exposure in the Western type of recruitment or human resources aspect that was brought here in the Philippines.
[00:22:47] Gray Matias: So right now we're, you know, I can say that in terms of HR practices, we're more sensitive on those aspects now.
[00:22:54] Victor: Okay.
[00:22:54] Victor: Yeah, that's interesting.
[00:22:55] Victor: I mean, we don't want to admit it, but we always judge a book by its cover.
[00:23:00] Gray Matias: And in the West, I'm from Canada, so employers would get in a lot of trouble if they were found to have discriminated for or against any candidates based on their age.
[00:23:12] Gray Matias: It's called ageism.
[00:23:14] Victor: I've learned that recently.
[00:23:15] Gray Matias: Based on their age, race, appearance, and things like that.
[00:23:19] Victor: But of course, it's a great line to draw, right?
[00:23:21] Victor: Because earlier on this interview,
[00:23:23] Gray Matias: You mentioned that one of the reasons why Philippines outsourcing has outperformed a lot of other regions is because of the neutral accent.
[00:23:35] Gray Matias: So if we're working with a client from the States and they're hiring for account managers or customer service reps to call these customers, they, of course, in their interest, want to appear as domestic, as local as possible for their clients to relate.
[00:23:51] Victor: So they're kind of discriminating against that.
[00:23:55] Gray Matias: So even though you could have a candidate from a different part of the world that is even more proficient in English, but they have a heavier accent,
[00:24:03] Gray Matias: We find that clients, they will explicitly tell us, no, thank you.
[00:24:09] Gray Matias: And so that's kind of the gray area in outsourcing, I guess.
[00:24:14] Victor: It depends on where you stand on it, but it is what it is as well.
[00:24:18] Victor: Okay, so just wrapping up this section, if you had to give one advice to candidates, what would you say for them to maximize their chance of finding a virtual job?
[00:24:31] Gray Matias: Right now, I think a lot of talents in the Philippines would want to join the virtual space.
[00:24:39] Victor: And why is that?
[00:24:39] Victor: Can we go into that a little bit?
[00:24:42] Gray Matias: Yeah, maybe because traffic is one thing here in the Philippines.
[00:24:46] Gray Matias: Also, there's this notion that...
[00:24:50] Gray Matias: Working from home is easy, which we would like to decipher as well that it's not.
[00:24:54] Gray Matias: It also offers a more competitive rate than the local companies here or even in the outsourcing space.
[00:25:01] Gray Matias: So if you're able to land a client or a work within the virtual space, usually you'll earn higher or bigger in comparison to the local jobs.
[00:25:13] Gray Matias: those are really the motivation okay so double click on the traffic part can you just describe to someone who's never been in the philippines what traffic is like here
[00:25:25] Victor: It's crazy, especially during rush hours.
[00:25:28] Gray Matias: So especially if you're in within the Metro Manila area, usually with the heavy traffic, a six kilometer travel usually would take like an hour.
[00:25:38] Gray Matias: Six kilometers travel will take an hour.
[00:25:41] Gray Matias: Yeah, during rush hours.
[00:25:42] Gray Matias: So which is crazy because if...
[00:25:46] Victor: There's no traffic.
[00:25:47] Gray Matias: It would only, like, take you 15 minutes for you to be able to travel that, you know.
[00:25:52] Gray Matias: I can run that in about 40 minutes.
[00:25:54] Victor: Exactly.
[00:25:55] Gray Matias: So, yeah, I think people are also tired in, you know, traveling from their homes to the business district.
[00:26:04] Gray Matias: They would allot two hours pre and post just to be able to go and, you know, go to the offices and go home to their families.
[00:26:13] Victor: It's wasted time, I say.
[00:26:15] Victor: So a lot of people, that's also one huge motivation.
[00:26:19] Gray Matias: That's the reason why they want to work from home so that they can use, you know, those times in a much more productive way.
[00:26:27] Gray Matias: Yeah, actually, I personally believe that the lack of time agency in this country is a big problem.
[00:26:33] Gray Matias: Like people, you have a very wide socioeconomic class divide here.
[00:26:38] Gray Matias: And people near the bottom, they pretty much have no say in how they spend their time.
[00:26:42] Victor: Because if they want to go somewhere, they can get there either 30 minutes before or two hours late, right?
[00:26:48] Gray Matias: You have no choice.
[00:26:50] Victor: So you can't plan your day.
[00:26:51] Gray Matias: If you can't plan your day, your day is ruined.
[00:26:54] Gray Matias: You cannot be productive.
[00:26:55] Victor: So that's interesting.
[00:26:56] Gray Matias: Now I want to double click into this other thing you said, which is there is a common belief that working from home is easy.
[00:27:03] Gray Matias: So by the way you said that, I guess you believe it's not easy.
[00:27:07] Victor: Can you tell us about your thoughts there?
[00:27:10] Gray Matias: Yeah, definitely, because a lot of people in the virtual space who sells courses online tells people that it's easy.
[00:27:19] Gray Matias: So a lot of people who would want to also transition to this type of career believes that it's easy for them to be able to jump from their current jobs or career to the virtual career, which technically is not true.
[00:27:34] Gray Matias: It takes a lot of mental fortitude for you to be able to survive in this space.
[00:27:38] Victor: Why?
[00:27:40] Victor: To put it easily this way, when you're at the office, you have people who can easily support you with anything that you need, right?
[00:27:47] Gray Matias: But when you are working from home, usually you're an individual contributor.
[00:27:52] Gray Matias: You decipher it yourself.
[00:27:54] Victor: You research it.
[00:27:55] Gray Matias: You don't have the ability to really just ask your client, your boss, to provide you any information.
[00:28:01] Gray Matias: Before you can actually do so, you would need to do your own research and do it yourself.
[00:28:07] Victor: So that you'll be able to know if it's something that they need or not.
[00:28:10] Gray Matias: So, you know, it takes a lot of mental fortitude to be able to survive in a way that you exist without the support of an office mate or, you know, a direct friend from the office.
[00:28:24] Gray Matias: Because most of the time you'll be working with a small to medium enterprises and you're the only virtual talent that they have.
[00:28:31] Gray Matias: So, you know, you don't have the support system.
[00:28:34] Gray Matias: That's one thing.
[00:28:35] Victor: Also,
[00:28:37] Gray Matias: If they think that working from home is a work where you're just clicking, inputting data, that's not how it is.
[00:28:45] Gray Matias: So you do a lot of research.
[00:28:47] Gray Matias: You create the structure for the client.
[00:28:51] Gray Matias: You create the manuals.
[00:28:52] Gray Matias: You do presentation.
[00:28:54] Victor: You communicate with their clients.
[00:28:56] Gray Matias: You know, it's kind of a one-man show.
[00:29:00] Victor: So you're running, you're definitely...
[00:29:04] Gray Matias: catering most of the needs you're running the show in the background so that your your boss or your leader can focus on the more important things so it's your job to function primarily as the support for your boss in comparison to an office work it's very compartmentalized you're expected to do customer service that you're just doing that other people would do other
[00:29:32] Victor: things as part of their responsibilities.
[00:29:34] Gray Matias: So what I'm trying to say is in an office setup, you're only expected to do a very compartmentalized task based on the job responsibility that you are presented.
[00:29:47] Gray Matias: In comparison to the virtual space, you usually do most of the things and even though you don't have a background or knowledge or experience about it, it's your job to learn and to research about it.
[00:29:59] Gray Matias: I think what you're describing there is just the level of initiative you have to take working from home.
[00:30:04] Gray Matias: Yeah, you're right.
[00:30:06] Victor: Use mental fortitude.
[00:30:07] Gray Matias: I'm going to use the word discipline because oftentimes people have their desk set up right next to their bed.
[00:30:13] Victor: And oftentimes you are working, especially for virtual jobs, unless you have an Australian client, North American client, often means graveyard shift, right?
[00:30:21] Gray Matias: And so it's very easy to just say, oh, that pillow looks so good right now.
[00:30:25] Gray Matias: I'm going to go lie down for a second.
[00:30:28] Victor: And then those things, can you roll trust in the beginning?
[00:30:30] Victor: Because if the clients have to wonder where you are, then that's a problem.
[00:30:34] Gray Matias: And then the other thing that you mentioned, yes, I noticed that, see, from a CV screening perspective, we're always preferencing towards candidates with these big company experiences because they get the training.
[00:30:47] Gray Matias: So let's say you used to be customer service supervisor at Concentrix or something like that.
[00:30:53] Victor: You've worked up the ranks.
[00:30:55] Gray Matias: So, you know, there's some generalized assumptions we can make about this person.
[00:30:59] Gray Matias: Like they're dedicated to their job.
[00:31:01] Victor: They can get along with their colleagues.
[00:31:03] Gray Matias: But then when we put them in a work from home role, like you said, they don't have that structure anymore.
[00:31:08] Gray Matias: They don't have the team anymore.
[00:31:10] Victor: They don't have the SLPs anymore.
[00:31:12] Gray Matias: And so they're being offered a job that's being paid more on the paper to do less, but their client is actually way more demanding.
[00:31:21] Gray Matias: And I think people who work for me know that because a small to medium enterprise client
[00:31:27] Gray Matias: from the States is really demanding because you have to be something else, someone else to start a business in North America.
[00:31:36] Victor: It's very competitive.
[00:31:38] Gray Matias: The barriers to entry are quite high, depending on where you look like in Canada is very high.
[00:31:42] Gray Matias: You often have to risk a lot of your own money.
[00:31:46] Victor: And so it's your baby, your business is your baby.
[00:31:49] Gray Matias: And if you're hiring someone in, you kind of expect that person to be fired up like you.
[00:31:54] Victor: And that's what the rates reflect.
[00:31:57] Victor: So, okay, so going all the way back, I don't think we answered the question because I keep interrupting you, but what would be that one tip you recommend aspiring virtual assistants?
[00:32:09] Gray Matias: If they're a newbie or they would want to switch career, it's really helpful if they...
[00:32:15] Gray Matias: find or discover within themselves what their strengths are that is needed in this virtual space.
[00:32:24] Gray Matias: If it's something that they are passionate about customer service or sales, try to develop that skill.
[00:32:31] Gray Matias: discover more trainings, research about how they can better themselves on those fields so that they can land a job in that specific industry.
[00:32:40] Gray Matias: Because I think that's the easiest way for them to be able to jump from their current career to the virtual space.
[00:32:46] Gray Matias: Also, in addition to that, it helps when they know how to anticipate the different needs of their client.
[00:32:54] Gray Matias: Maybe it's a Canadian client, it's a US client, on how their...
[00:32:59] Gray Matias: how they usually communicate.
[00:33:01] Victor: Sometimes here in the Philippines,
[00:33:04] Victor: I wouldn't say we're onion-skinned, but, you know, we're kind of sensitive in terms of how people talk to us.
[00:33:10] Gray Matias: So when you directly communicate or talk to a business owner, it's a different communication in comparison to you here in the Philippines just talking to your colleagues, to your peers, your supervisor, because people in the U.S. are very straightforward.
[00:33:25] Gray Matias: What I'm trying to point out is just really anticipating these types of communications to a Westerner client or to your leader.
[00:33:33] Gray Matias: And not take it to heart that they're already disappointed, so you would already leave your responsibility.
[00:33:40] Gray Matias: That's the reason why I always say that it takes a lot of mental fortitude to be able for you to thrive in this industry.
[00:33:48] Gray Matias: Because you need to be susceptible to feedback.
[00:33:52] Gray Matias: You need to be able to juggle different responsibility at the same time.
[00:33:57] Victor: And more so, take...
[00:33:59] Gray Matias: you know, everything that you can take in terms of knowledge with your client and decipher their needs ahead of time, because that's how you survive in this work in comparison to you being in a compartmentalized type of responsibility.
[00:34:13] Victor: Why do you think, in your perspective, people are more sensitive here?
[00:34:18] Gray Matias: Because I know why in the West, because we weren't hugged as kids or something like that and pushed very hard.
[00:34:24] Gray Matias: But I feel like people push their kids here hard too with schooling and things like that.
[00:34:29] Gray Matias: So I'm still trying to understand that difference.
[00:34:31] Gray Matias: Sorry for interrupting you.
[00:34:32] Gray Matias: Yeah, no, no problem.
[00:34:34] Victor: I think, you know, we're...
[00:34:36] Gray Matias: Filipinos are definitely not used to any arguments, I believe personally.
[00:34:43] Victor: Even though our parents are hard to us growing up, I think, you know, when it's...
[00:34:50] Gray Matias: someone that's not related to you that you know um are kind of you know telling you these things i think we're not good in terms of confrontation yeah we're not confrontational yeah so i think that that's where it stems out that when we are pushed into such situation we usually take it personally
[00:35:15] Gray Matias: Because most of the people that are professional are really careful in terms of how they speak, how they communicate with their colleagues and, you know, even to their friends and family.
[00:35:28] Gray Matias: So, yeah, I think us not being confrontational and.
[00:35:34] Gray Matias: Sorry if I need to say this.
[00:35:36] Victor: I think also Filipinos are very people pleaser.
[00:35:40] Gray Matias: So it also stems from that habit of being a people pleaser wherein if we don't necessarily please our clients or, you know, the people we work with, we sometimes feel bad and we just usually take it negatively, those type of situations.
[00:35:58] Gray Matias: Let's make sure to clip that and take them out of context.
[00:36:01] Gray Matias: Put it all over TikTok.
[00:36:03] Gray Matias: Okay.
[00:36:04] Gray Matias: Okay.
[00:36:05] Gray Matias: I guess.
[00:36:05] Gray Matias: Okay.
[00:36:06] Victor: Last question.
[00:36:07] Gray Matias: So that was your suggestion for the candidate side.
[00:36:12] Victor: What would you recommend to like a business owner, a small medium enterprise or decision maker in the West?
[00:36:19] Gray Matias: And it's their first time trying to set up a global team and trying to go offshore.
[00:36:25] Victor: what would you recommend they do?
[00:36:26] Victor: Whether they go through an agency or go by themselves, what tips do you have for them to also survive, also build a partnership that works?
[00:36:36] Gray Matias: If they're looking to outsource, hire virtual talents here in the Philippines, I think the safest way for them to be able to go is being in an agency, especially they don't have to worry in terms of talent management.
[00:36:53] Gray Matias: Also, we have the capacity to monitor these talents day to day in their day to day operations.
[00:37:00] Gray Matias: And at the same time, if anything in terms of operational does not go well, we have the capacity to replace and at the same time, you know, guide these talents or individuals on how they can not just survive, but definitely be something that is more than expected of them in terms of partnership.
[00:37:18] Gray Matias: So that's one thing.
[00:37:21] Victor: recommendation that I would provide to a business owner.
[00:37:23] Gray Matias: But also if they're expecting that their hires would just be plug and play, that's not going to work out.
[00:37:30] Gray Matias: Especially they need to also really allot time for them to be able to collaborate with that hire on how their business works, walk them through on how their operations.
[00:37:42] Gray Matias: do business on a day-to-day basis, and really hand-holding as to what are the outcomes they expect from these hires.
[00:37:51] Gray Matias: Because usually that's where failure sets in, when they just expect people to do their job, deliver results, but not really putting in a context on how they can do that within their business environment.
[00:38:04] Gray Matias: So, you know, usually you're just setting up your talents to fail if you're not dedicated in terms of putting in also some time to work with them, especially during the first, you know, early days of your engagement or partnership.
[00:38:18] Victor: I have one thought to that and I got one final question for you.
[00:38:21] Gray Matias: So clients thinking that virtual assistants is off the shelf solution, that's a marketing problem.
[00:38:28] Gray Matias: Because what happens is a lot of these big companies out in the West, they can't describe the nuance of hiring a human being in a seven word tagline.
[00:38:39] Gray Matias: So instead, what they say is hire a VA and have all your troubles go away in 72 hours.
[00:38:44] Gray Matias: And that's what most of the big companies do.
[00:38:46] Victor: So we have clients that come to us and say, hey, what does a VA do?
[00:38:49] Gray Matias: And we always say, well, we don't really do VAs.
[00:38:52] Gray Matias: We do sales reps, customer service, IT support, you know, graphic designers.
[00:38:56] Victor: So you have to describe it.
[00:38:57] Gray Matias: And it's really, it's like no different than hiring anybody else, any other human.
[00:39:03] Victor: Okay, great.
[00:39:04] Gray Matias: My last question, I guess.
[00:39:06] Victor: You've been in the outsourcing industry since 2010.
[00:39:10] Victor: Where do you think this industry is headed now, given that we have AI, particularly for recruitment?
[00:39:17] Victor: Do you think that recruitment will continue to exist or AI will disrupt that?
[00:39:23] Gray Matias: Pretty much, in terms of AI, I think it helps us to easily pre-screen talents.
[00:39:29] Gray Matias: That's also the reason why I was talking earlier about the creation of resumes on how it can be ATS-friendly or the system that we use.
[00:39:38] Gray Matias: Pretty much, you know, AI is going to help us easily know at face value with their CVs as to who are these applicants that are...
[00:39:52] Victor: that has the talent that we're looking for.
[00:39:54] Victor: That's really ramping up and being integrated into the tools that we're using.
[00:39:59] Gray Matias: As mentioned earlier, it really is helpful for us to be able to pre-screen talent, screen hundreds of resumes on a day-to-day basis.
[00:40:09] Gray Matias: So, you know, it gives us more of the ability to...
[00:40:15] Gray Matias: engage with talents and easily invite them for interviews that are pre-screened already by AI.
[00:40:21] Gray Matias: So now if you're going to ask me if it'll replace the entirety of recruitment, I don't think so.
[00:40:29] Gray Matias: In doing recruitment, there's also a lot of human factor that comes in in doing that.
[00:40:34] Victor: So the AI cannot really...
[00:40:38] Gray Matias: decipher nuances within our culture why you know talents have this particular background why they had to switch jobs easily or why they decided to stay longer in this particular company in comparison to the their most recent experience you know things like that so it places a lot of human factor in recruitment as to you deciphering if they're a perfect match for the client and for the company's culture so i don't think you know things like that
[00:41:08] Victor: is something that AI can do.
[00:41:11] Gray Matias: Because AI, even though it's still, you know, learning a lot of human emotions and whatnot, I think as someone who does the local recruitment, knows the culture and knows the people here, it's very vital and fundamental for us to be able to do human-to-human recruitment.
[00:41:31] Gray Matias: And these usual nuances, and I can go circling back through the human factor, are also the guiding factors as to why we place these vetted talents to our clients, especially matching their expectation, their attitudes on what they're looking for in a certain individual.
[00:41:53] Victor: Because if we'll just rely to the AI in doing the recruitment,
[00:41:57] Gray Matias: I think it will always just fail because they're just more focused on finding the skills versus the attitude as well.
[00:42:06] Gray Matias: Because primarily us in the recruitment, we believe that skills are easily taught.
[00:42:11] Gray Matias: Like you learning a new skill, a process or, you know, learning a specific tool and whatnot can easily be taught.
[00:42:20] Gray Matias: But attitude wise or, you know, their commitment, it's not a skill that can be transferred.
[00:42:26] Gray Matias: Okay, well, let's hope you are right or else we're going to have to find new work.
[00:42:30] Gray Matias: But Gray, thank you for coming on and thank you for doing this.
[00:42:34] Gray Matias: Appreciate your time.
[00:42:34] Victor: Oh, thank you.
[00:42:35] Gray Matias: It's my pleasure to be here, Victor.
[00:42:37] Gray Matias: Okay.
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