Meet Cyrel.

[00:00:00] Victor: Hello, today we are here with Sai.

[00:00:02] Victor: Sai is an insurance professional here in the Philippines and in recent years transitioned to virtual assistants work.

[00:00:10] Victor: So we're going to get into her story and get some feedback with her on how it's going.

[00:00:16] Victor: Welcome.

[00:00:17] Cyrel: Thank you for having me.

[00:00:19] Victor: Yeah, no worries.

[00:00:21] Victor: So I saw your CV before you came here, and you started out at BDO, which is one of the major banks here selling insurance.

[00:00:29] Victor: Can you just tell us a little bit about that?

[00:00:32] Cyrel: So, okay, I was part of BDO for almost eight years and I work as a financial advisor.

[00:00:38] Cyrel: So it's typically you're just selling life insurance to the clients, type of investments, whatever it is that you need for your mortgage, life insurance protection for educational purposes.

[00:00:49] Cyrel: So I deal with that.

[00:00:52] Cyrel: And I'm part of the sales team.

[00:00:55] Cyrel: So I also have quotas, targets every month.

[00:01:01] Cyrel: That's part of the sales force for Medio.

[00:01:04] Cyrel: Medio is more on financial institutions.

[00:01:07] Cyrel: So they do have withdrawals, banking, deposits.

[00:01:10] Cyrel: You have your savings.

[00:01:11] Cyrel: So I'm in the part of selling insurances or investments to the clients.

[00:01:16] Victor: Okay, I have many follow-up questions to that.

[00:01:18] Victor: So first of all, I'm curious, is this a commission-only role or is it like a base salary plus commission?

[00:01:23] Victor: Okay.

[00:01:24] Cyrel: It has a basic salary, but it also gives a certain commission.

[00:01:29] Cyrel: And it depends if you hit your target for that particular month.

[00:01:33] Cyrel: But it's not always like monthly you'll get something additional, but your basic salary is guaranteed.

[00:01:40] Cyrel: And you also have other benefits.

[00:01:42] Victor: Okay, I see.

[00:01:43] Victor: And is your work field work or do you wait for customers to come to you in the branch?

[00:01:48] Cyrel: Okay, so it depends.

[00:01:49] Cyrel: But most of the time, I'm inside the branch.

[00:01:52] Cyrel: I'm waiting for the clients to be referred by other bank partners.

[00:01:57] Cyrel: But there are times that we do have high-end clients or VIPs.

[00:02:01] Cyrel: So we visit them in their home and then...

[00:02:04] Cyrel: We're also given an opportunity to meet them outside.

[00:02:08] Cyrel: For example, they want to do a meeting or presentation in their companies or we'll have some lunch or coffee and then we'll present some proposals as well.

[00:02:18] Victor: Okay, so primarily you're selling life insurance and you said mortgage.

[00:02:22] Victor: So these are to match like the term.

[00:02:24] Victor: I don't know insurance that well, but let's say the kids are in school and they have a big liability.

[00:02:29] Victor: So they want to buy the insurance in case something happens, they can still pay for the school, right?

[00:02:34] Victor: Yes.

[00:02:35] Victor: Okay.

[00:02:35] Victor: What was the hardest part about that job?

[00:02:38] Cyrel: At first, it's really deep pressure because you have these monthly numbers that you need to achieve.

[00:02:46] Victor: Okay.

[00:02:46] Victor: Can you give me a sense of how many policies you have to sell or something like that?

[00:02:53] Cyrel: So you need to ensure like eight clients every month.

[00:02:56] Cyrel: That's the minimum.

[00:02:58] Cyrel: And then the minimum amount should be 500,000 pesos.

[00:03:03] Cyrel: Yes, that's in pesos.

[00:03:05] Cyrel: And then sometimes client doesn't really afford it that much.

[00:03:10] Victor: Yeah, that sounds like a month.

[00:03:11] Cyrel: So usually for the minimum client, they need to pay like $35,000 to start their insurance.

[00:03:18] Cyrel: But that's kind of big, right?

[00:03:20] Cyrel: So we need to find the right client for that.

[00:03:23] Victor: Okay.

[00:03:24] Victor: So, right.

[00:03:24] Victor: Insurance is a business model, I guess.

[00:03:26] Victor: You have...

[00:03:28] Victor: more of an introductory offer so you like introduce them to insurance maybe it's like term or something right and then you start to sell more ones that have more family members and things like that where their life changes like say they make more money or something like that so like what would you say your sales cycle is do you stick with one client for a long time do you follow up multiple times in a year tell me about that

[00:03:52] Cyrel: So our bank partners are actually a big part of our sales process because they are the one who's prospecting.

[00:04:00] Cyrel: So they can see the amount of the client that they have in their bank.

[00:04:04] Cyrel: So if they tell you that, I think this client can't afford, you know, they have something.

[00:04:10] Cyrel: So they save something so they can afford your life insurance or our investment offer.

[00:04:15] Cyrel: And then they could just, they will refer the client to us.

[00:04:20] Cyrel: We're going to be talking to the client, you know, building relationship first.

[00:04:24] Cyrel: You're not going to like bump in there and, oh, you need to get life insurance.

[00:04:28] Cyrel: I know you need to be insured and you have your kids, you have your family.

[00:04:33] Cyrel: No, it's not something like that.

[00:04:34] Cyrel: You have to know the needs first.

[00:04:36] Cyrel: You have to know their family background so you'll be able to give the right product to them.

[00:04:41] Victor: Okay, I see.

[00:04:43] Victor: We're going to jump ahead a little bit because I also know now you're working for an insurance broker in Canada.

[00:04:51] Victor: So before we get into that, I have a pit stop question.

[00:04:54] Victor: Do you find it easier to sell insurance to a Western audience or is it easier to sell insurance to people here?

[00:05:00] Cyrel: Yeah, it's actually easier to deal with Western clients.

[00:05:04] Victor: Interesting.

[00:05:04] Victor: Why is that?

[00:05:05] Cyrel: It's because I think they're more knowledgeable about the insurance.

[00:05:10] Cyrel: It's like when you're, I'm not sure if I can say this.

[00:05:14] Victor: You can say whatever you want.

[00:05:16] Victor: Great speech.

[00:05:17] Victor: Yeah.

[00:05:18] Cyrel: So my clients are from Canada, right?

[00:05:21] Cyrel: So the people there, they work and they invest.

[00:05:25] Cyrel: It's like it's already automatic that they need to get a life insurance.

[00:05:31] Cyrel: It's like mandatory.

[00:05:33] Cyrel: So here in the Philippines, it's like you need to discuss everything, explain everything, why you need to be covered, why you need this one.

[00:05:40] Cyrel: You insured your car, you insured your houses.

[00:05:42] Cyrel: Why not?

[00:05:43] Cyrel: You should insure yourself.

[00:05:45] Cyrel: So it's the thing.

[00:05:46] Cyrel: But in Canada, it's so easy to talk to them.

[00:05:48] Victor: Now, your clients in Canada, they are, is it fair to say they are more Filipino Canadian as well?

[00:05:55] Cyrel: Yes.

[00:05:55] Victor: Okay, so that's interesting because I will say I don't have any insurance.

[00:06:00] Victor: So if I die, that's it.

[00:06:01] Victor: Sorry, wife and kids.

[00:06:03] Victor: That's it.

[00:06:03] Victor: If I kick the bucket in this traffic, it's done.

[00:06:07] Victor: I find, I don't know if it's fair to say, but Filipinos are pretty risk averse as well in the West.

[00:06:16] Victor: But I personally never buy insurance.

[00:06:17] Victor: I don't buy AppleCare.

[00:06:19] Victor: I don't buy anything.

[00:06:20] Victor: I don't buy extended warranty.

[00:06:22] Victor: Do you have clients in Canada that are not Filipino?

[00:06:25] Victor: Do you notice any difference or is it about the same?

[00:06:27] Cyrel: For clients who are in Canada that are, that belongs to Filipino community, right?

[00:06:33] Cyrel: So they've been in Canada for so long.

[00:06:36] Cyrel: It's like mandatory to them.

[00:06:38] Cyrel: And they wanted to buy insurance for their retirement, for their kids, for RESP, that's for educational purposes, right?

[00:06:46] Cyrel: And for retirement as well.

[00:06:47] Cyrel: So that's RRSP.

[00:06:49] Cyrel: So we offer that to them.

[00:06:50] Cyrel: For foreign clients, like a pure Canadian, let's say.

[00:06:55] Cyrel: So it's kind of,

[00:06:57] Cyrel: a little hard to deal with them because the focus more is on investment side, not on the protection side.

[00:07:04] Victor: Exactly.

[00:07:04] Cyrel: So you really need to balance it well.

[00:07:06] Cyrel: Yeah.

[00:07:07] Victor: Like personally for me, sorry, personally for me, I don't even really have an RRS fee because I don't believe in it.

[00:07:13] Victor: I don't even believe in the concept of retirement.

[00:07:16] Victor: I don't trust the government to have enough funds when I retire.

[00:07:20] Victor: So all of my investments are in super high risk.

[00:07:24] Victor: equity stocks high risk high return pretty much because i see you know i'm still pretty young right so i see my my time horizon as very long so okay so that's interesting have you like how did you get into insurance here in the philippines did you work straight out of school into insurance

[00:07:45] Cyrel: My first trip is actually in a multinational company.

[00:07:50] Cyrel: I don't know if you're familiar, but it also has a branch in Singapore.

[00:07:55] Cyrel: So it's Ecolab.

[00:07:56] Cyrel: When you visit hotels or restaurants, our products are like this washing machine, the ones that you're using for washing your hands, something like that.

[00:08:08] Cyrel: So you see that more on sanitary side.

[00:08:10] Cyrel: So I was part of the finance team in there.

[00:08:13] Victor: Like bookkeeping accounting?

[00:08:15] Cyrel: Yes, something like that.

[00:08:17] Cyrel: So credit representative as well, keeping records, accounts receivables, something more on finance.

[00:08:23] Cyrel: And after two years, I transferred to Medeo because it's kind of far from my place.

[00:08:28] Cyrel: I've worked in the BGC for two years.

[00:08:31] Victor: And what were you living at the time?

[00:08:33] Cyrel: In Laguna as well.

[00:08:34] Victor: Laguna.

[00:08:35] Victor: So you were going Laguna into BGC through C5.

[00:08:38] Cyrel: Yes.

[00:08:39] Cyrel: And I'm fresh graduate.

[00:08:40] Cyrel: I don't have savings.

[00:08:41] Cyrel: I don't have the, you know, attitude to go there and just meet a lot of people.

[00:08:48] Cyrel: Like, they have their own lifestyle already.

[00:08:51] Cyrel: They've built themselves.

[00:08:52] Cyrel: So I'm already, I'm just starting.

[00:08:56] Cyrel: So it's kind of hard for me to save that much because of the expense, especially in transportation and food.

[00:09:02] Victor: How were you getting to BTC every day?

[00:09:04] Cyrel: We were provided a shuttle, but once you're late, you're going to have to take grab or bus.

[00:09:10] Victor: Okay.

[00:09:11] Victor: Yeah.

[00:09:11] Victor: Okay.

[00:09:11] Victor: And grab, of course, is pretty expensive, right?

[00:09:14] Victor: Especially back then.

[00:09:16] Victor: Okay.

[00:09:16] Victor: And then why did you decide to go into insurance after Ecolab?

[00:09:22] Cyrel: Okay, so I actually have a lot of friends work at Medigo.

[00:09:26] Cyrel: So they just keep on telling me, why not try our bank?

[00:09:31] Cyrel: So we're stable here and then you can be part of the branch that's near your house.

[00:09:39] Cyrel: So you don't have to worry about the traffic, your transportation causes and everything.

[00:09:44] Cyrel: So I just tried and then luckily I passed and then I stayed there for almost eight years.

[00:09:50] Victor: So you said a word there.

[00:09:52] Victor: You said it's stable.

[00:09:53] Victor: So I'm curious, are you into stability?

[00:09:57] Victor: Or maybe that answer has changed now.

[00:10:01] Victor: Because I feel like a lot of people here, they're after stability.

[00:10:04] Victor: Yes, of course.

[00:10:05] Victor: Or are you after upside, like high risk, high return?

[00:10:08] Victor: How do you think about that for careers?

[00:10:11] Cyrel: So during my 20s, I always think about, you know, saving a lot, more of building my career, having a good position, you know, something to be... Something to be... Big title.

[00:10:24] Cyrel: Yeah.

[00:10:25] Cyrel: Proud of and just a bragging rights with your family that, you know, I'm here.

[00:10:30] Victor: I achieved this.

[00:10:31] Cyrel: Yes, I'm just in my 20s.

[00:10:34] Cyrel: But when I reached my age of like 30s...

[00:10:37] Victor: Remember, I never dated you on this podcast.

[00:10:40] Victor: You're doing it to yourself, okay?

[00:10:41] Victor: So we can beat that out if you want, okay?

[00:10:44] Cyrel: So when I reach the age of 30, it's like my priorities shifted.

[00:10:50] Cyrel: So I'm more on focusing on my health, time with my family, and I just don't want to feel a lot of pressure right now.

[00:11:01] Victor: And you want to make more money?

[00:11:03] Victor: Yes.

[00:11:03] Victor: Always, right?

[00:11:04] Victor: Yes.

[00:11:05] Victor: Yeah.

[00:11:05] Cyrel: Maybe I can work smarter.

[00:11:07] Victor: Yeah?

[00:11:08] Victor: Okay.

[00:11:09] Victor: So flash forward to today, you're working for an insurance broker.

[00:11:15] Victor: That's a fair term?

[00:11:16] Victor: Yeah.

[00:11:16] Victor: Broker in Canada, right?

[00:11:18] Victor: How long has that been now?

[00:11:19] Victor: How many years?

[00:11:20] Cyrel: More than two years.

[00:11:22] Victor: More than two years.

[00:11:23] Victor: Less than three.

[00:11:24] Cyrel: Yes, less than three.

[00:11:25] Victor: Okay.

[00:11:25] Victor: How's that going?

[00:11:27] Cyrel: My relationship with my client is kind of like amazing because I can feel that he sees me, he sees my work, the things that I've done for the company, and he always asks for my opinion, and he wants to join me in every decision that we make for his business.

[00:11:47] Cyrel: So I am being heard, I am being appreciated, so it kind of feels good.

[00:11:54] Victor: What was the biggest transition for you?

[00:11:57] Victor: Because I know you've had other sort of virtual remote experience.

[00:12:01] Victor: Oh, by the way, let's go back a second.

[00:12:02] Victor: So why did you decide to leave insurance at BDO to pursue remote work?

[00:12:08] Victor: Is it just to cut that commute even shorter?

[00:12:11] Victor: Is that why?

[00:12:12] Cyrel: Yeah, number one, of course, is the, we have the terrible traffic here in the Philippines, okay?

[00:12:18] Cyrel: So I wake up like two to three hours before.

[00:12:22] Cyrel: Your shift starts.

[00:12:23] Cyrel: Yes.

[00:12:24] Cyrel: So I need to travel quite a lot.

[00:12:28] Cyrel: And it's just that I think I haven't been able to give a lot of quality time with my family.

[00:12:36] Cyrel: I'm always outside attending events, going to the houses of our clients, even at night, even after work.

[00:12:43] Cyrel: So I'm still asked.

[00:12:45] Cyrel: Yes.

[00:12:45] Victor: That's a relationship management part.

[00:12:47] Victor: Yes.

[00:12:47] Cyrel: So it's like my shift ended at 7 p.m. Wow.

[00:12:52] Cyrel: Yes.

[00:12:53] Cyrel: And sometimes I also need to do like team dinner.

[00:12:58] Cyrel: So I'll be home by 10, 11 p.m. and then the next day I'll just wake up.

[00:13:02] Cyrel: It's just I came to a point where I wake up being exhausted.

[00:13:08] Cyrel: So I just don't want to go to work anymore.

[00:13:11] Cyrel: The money doesn't really motivate me anymore.

[00:13:14] Victor: So money is a factor as well.

[00:13:15] Cyrel: Yes.

[00:13:16] Cyrel: So by that time, I've been seeing Angel.

[00:13:19] Cyrel: You know, she's been part of Trendly before.

[00:13:23] Cyrel: And I can see her stories, her posts on Instagram and Facebook.

[00:13:28] Victor: Was she posting smacking off during work?

[00:13:30] Victor: Oh, cool.

[00:13:31] Cyrel: It's like they'll be having a vacation as a family, right?

[00:13:36] Cyrel: But she can still work.

[00:13:37] Cyrel: Yes.

[00:13:38] Cyrel: And she can still take care of the kids.

[00:13:42] Cyrel: She can pause and breathe for like 10 to 15 minutes and then go back to working again.

[00:13:46] Cyrel: So I feel like maybe I should also try working in the same industry so I can just get a lot of time for myself and for my family.

[00:13:59] Victor: For everyone listening, Angel is someone who used to work on our recruitment team, and then she left for greener pastures, I think.

[00:14:06] Victor: But I should mention, not every company allows that sort of flexibility, right?

[00:14:11] Victor: Because a lot of companies here, they use time trackers, which I think she is familiar with now.

[00:14:17] Victor: Time trackers, so you have to be at your computer, I think, every 10 minutes, 15 minutes, or else you get a message from the, I don't know, the enforcement team.

[00:14:26] Victor: Okay, so back to my question earlier, what has been sort of the biggest adjustment or the hardest thing that you've experienced working with a Canadian client?

[00:14:36] Cyrel: Okay, so of course, when you start working here in the Philippines, there's what we call trainings, right?

[00:14:43] Cyrel: Your supervisors or even just your colleagues are there to support you and give you something like you could learn from.

[00:14:51] Cyrel: But when I started working from home, this virtual industry,

[00:14:56] Cyrel: I learned to work on myself, just me being alone.

[00:15:00] Cyrel: Sometimes I don't know what to do, what tools to use.

[00:15:03] Cyrel: And I was afraid to even ask like twice or tries because I don't want to be labeled as, are you stupid or fool?

[00:15:14] Cyrel: You don't know what you're doing.

[00:15:16] Cyrel: So that's somehow that's also a big adjustment for me.

[00:15:20] Cyrel: And of course, second is that I'd be working on alone.

[00:15:25] Cyrel: And then I don't have any colleagues to talk to.

[00:15:29] Cyrel: So I don't have someone with me that I can have lunch with, you know, talk about life.

[00:15:35] Cyrel: How was your day?

[00:15:36] Cyrel: How is this work?

[00:15:37] Cyrel: It's kind of stressful.

[00:15:40] Cyrel: I'm sorry.

[00:15:41] Cyrel: So that's the biggest adjustment for me as well.

[00:15:44] Victor: On your first point about the questions, I've learned that, like when I interview people here, I'll say, do you have any questions at the end?

[00:15:53] Victor: And they, I'll say eight times out of 10 say no.

[00:15:57] Victor: Because they don't want to ask questions because questions feel like you don't understand something, right?

[00:16:01] Victor: But for me, I would just immediately not hire those people.

[00:16:05] Victor: Because there's no way they can, like, you know, in the West, the interview part where you're asking questions, that's almost the part that you get assessed.

[00:16:13] Victor: You get assessed in the quality and depth and thoughtfulness of your questions.

[00:16:19] Victor: Because there's no way you can understand the job, right?

[00:16:21] Victor: So that's definitely interesting.

[00:16:23] Victor: But you're asking more questions now, I guess.

[00:16:25] Cyrel: Yeah.

[00:16:26] Victor: Yeah.

[00:16:27] Victor: Okay.

[00:16:28] Victor: No problem.

[00:16:28] Victor: And then on the loneliness factor, that is definitely true.

[00:16:32] Victor: So how have you been dealing with that?

[00:16:34] Victor: Is talking to yourself?

[00:16:36] Cyrel: Sometimes I talk to Nia.

[00:16:38] Cyrel: Hi, Nia.

[00:16:38] Cyrel: How was your day?

[00:16:40] Cyrel: How was your play?

[00:16:41] Cyrel: Something like that.

[00:16:41] Cyrel: Messenger, something like that.

[00:16:43] Cyrel: Okay.

[00:16:44] Cyrel: And of course, if I do have some issues with my work as well, I message my client.

[00:16:50] Cyrel: So I message Ben.

[00:16:52] Cyrel: But it's not always about work.

[00:16:54] Cyrel: I also ask, how was his day?

[00:16:56] Cyrel: His health, especially, you know, he's been like going to the gym this past few months.

[00:17:02] Cyrel: So I'd like to see the progress.

[00:17:04] Cyrel: Okay.

[00:17:05] Cyrel: I want him to be healthy and stay healthy so we can still work for a long time.

[00:17:09] Cyrel: Yeah, understood.

[00:17:11] Victor: You find that, you know, working with bosses and managers from the West, the hierarchy is not really there.

[00:17:17] Victor: It's very flat, right?

[00:17:19] Victor: And that's something I've, you know, just to share with you, I had to adjust to here because I find that, you know, when I started the company, when I started Trendly...

[00:17:29] Victor: this is just the way I dress, for example.

[00:17:32] Victor: And I just talk to everybody, like, we're the same level, we can, because in the West, you know, you could be the boss, you could be the junior analyst, you can go out and have beers together.

[00:17:41] Victor: But I think here is kind of uncommon, right?

[00:17:44] Victor: Like bosses are in a separate class.

[00:17:47] Victor: And so I learned that whenever I show up to the team meetings, you know, I joined late.

[00:17:53] Victor: And when I joined, everyone's like, ha, ha, ha, you know, like, like cheese meats and they're all having fun.

[00:17:57] Victor: But as soon as I joined, it's like, shh.

[00:17:59] Victor: Just quiet.

[00:18:00] Victor: So do you work with anyone else in the business there?

[00:18:05] Victor: Are there other people on the team?

[00:18:07] Cyrel: Yeah, we do have one from admin.

[00:18:09] Victor: Okay.

[00:18:10] Victor: Okay.

[00:18:10] Victor: I see.

[00:18:11] Victor: Has that helped the loneliness factor?

[00:18:13] Cyrel: Yes, I suppose.

[00:18:14] Victor: Walk me through like a typical day because you're still doing sales.

[00:18:18] Victor: You're doing insurance, sales, and follow-up.

[00:18:20] Victor: So maybe tell me about like a typical day you would do.

[00:18:23] Victor: Okay.

[00:18:24] Cyrel: So I take care of customers' relationship.

[00:18:27] Cyrel: That's number one.

[00:18:28] Cyrel: For Ben, I manage his calendar.

[00:18:31] Cyrel: So I schedule clients that are good for buying insurance, like, are good for planning now.

[00:18:38] Cyrel: So it's like, okay, so we're going to book the client because they're going to be buying insurance.

[00:18:43] Cyrel: So it's like, it's profit, additional profit to the company.

[00:18:47] Cyrel: But most of the time, I book them for review.

[00:18:49] Cyrel: just to revisit the policy, revisit your investment, what's happening with your investment now.

[00:18:56] Cyrel: And then I also manage the claims like customer service in our company.

[00:19:01] Cyrel: So it's like all around.

[00:19:03] Cyrel: So I've been going around with the business.

[00:19:06] Victor: You have like a phone, right?

[00:19:08] Victor: Like a VoIP phone.

[00:19:10] Victor: And then you just call clients.

[00:19:12] Cyrel: I call clients.

[00:19:13] Cyrel: Clients call us.

[00:19:14] Cyrel: I answer them.

[00:19:15] Cyrel: I assist them with everything that they need.

[00:19:16] Victor: So you actually have to be there because your computer might ring.

[00:19:20] Victor: Okay.

[00:19:20] Victor: And when you're not there, it's an out of office.

[00:19:23] Cyrel: There's a voicemail.

[00:19:25] Victor: Yeah, set up.

[00:19:26] Cyrel: Okay.

[00:19:26] Victor: What do you think is sort of next for you?

[00:19:29] Victor: And you can say as much or as little as you want.

[00:19:32] Victor: It's up to you.

[00:19:32] Victor: Because we find that just like people here, sometimes there are concentrics or BPO or a local bank, they take a leap of faith into the virtual space.

[00:19:46] Victor: And sometimes it doesn't work out.

[00:19:47] Victor: You know, sometimes it's like the graveyard shifts that burns them out, doesn't fit their lifestyle.

[00:19:52] Victor: Sometimes it's just the mismatch with the client or, you know, the work, the communication, the loneliness.

[00:19:57] Victor: But oftentimes it does work out.

[00:19:58] Victor: Of course, I believe these jobs, they do pay better than local jobs.

[00:20:02] Victor: Right.

[00:20:03] Victor: So then it kind of opens up some new ideas, you know, maybe not immediate, but long term, midterm.

[00:20:09] Victor: You know, some people want to start a business.

[00:20:11] Victor: Some people think like, oh, I'll start an agency.

[00:20:14] Victor: well, just, you know, find other clients because now you build some skill set, right?

[00:20:18] Victor: Do you ever think about the future?

[00:20:21] Victor: I read a really long question so I can give you time to think.

[00:20:24] Cyrel: All right.

[00:20:24] Cyrel: So my first plan would be like in three to five years?

[00:20:28] Victor: You're content now then.

[00:20:30] Victor: Are you content?

[00:20:31] Cyrel: I'm good for now, but maybe in the future I can look for clients that would allow me to work during day shift.

[00:20:40] Cyrel: So I've been working for like, yeah, more than two years in a graveyard time.

[00:20:46] Cyrel: And I know for a long run, I know for sure it will take toll on my health.

[00:20:51] Cyrel: So I'm going to feel something in my body, in my health.

[00:20:56] Cyrel: So I have to take care of it.

[00:20:57] Cyrel: So in the long run, if, you know, client permits or client want me to be part of the company, if he would just allow me to do my work day shift.

[00:21:08] Cyrel: So that's a good thing.

[00:21:09] Victor: How do you think that would work?

[00:21:10] Victor: Because in my mind, there are some solutions.

[00:21:12] Victor: But how do you think that would work with a client?

[00:21:15] Victor: Like what time are you calling?

[00:21:16] Victor: Are you calling during business hours or are you calling clients at the prime time?

[00:21:21] Cyrel: Yes, I'm calling during business hours.

[00:21:24] Cyrel: So that would be, in Philippine time, that's like 12 a.m. to 8 a.m.

[00:21:30] Cyrel: So I've been calling clients.

[00:21:32] Cyrel: That's 9 a.m. in Canada, right?

[00:21:34] Victor: So your immediate solution, of course, is any insurance business in Australia.

[00:21:39] Victor: could could do that and okay so that's one another way would be like if the insurance business that you're currently working for grows to a point and then now you can supervise and manage right like other people to do it you know because now you're moving out of

[00:22:03] Victor: operation into delegation but of course that depends on on the business yes it really depends on the business how it yeah it'll grow so how are you balancing your schedule now then do you switch like on the weekend are you just full daytime

[00:22:19] Cyrel: Well, during weekdays or my working schedule, right, my working week, I try to stay with my shift.

[00:22:26] Cyrel: So after my shift ended, I really tried hard to sleep.

[00:22:31] Victor: Right away?

[00:22:31] Cyrel: Yes.

[00:22:32] Cyrel: I just don't want to shuffle my sleeping time or, you know, my body clock, something like that.

[00:22:40] Victor: So you'll finish at like 8 a.m. And then you'll go to sleep.

[00:22:43] Victor: What time do you wake up?

[00:22:43] Cyrel: So I make sure I'll be in bed at 9 a.m.

[00:22:47] Victor: After you're doing scroll a little bit.

[00:22:49] Victor: Yes.

[00:22:50] Cyrel: And then I wake up at 5 p.m. in the afternoon.

[00:22:54] Cyrel: Okay.

[00:22:54] Cyrel: Because I need to prepare dinner.

[00:22:56] Victor: Okay, you have to cook dinner.

[00:22:58] Cyrel: Yes, I have to cook dinner.

[00:22:59] Cyrel: I have to do some house chores first.

[00:23:04] Cyrel: And then maybe I could sleep back at 9 p.m. Then I could just wake up at 12.

[00:23:10] Victor: So you go back to sleep at 9 p.m.?

[00:23:11] Cyrel: Yes.

[00:23:12] Victor: Why?

[00:23:13] Victor: Is it because when you sleep 9 to 5, there's not quality sleep?

[00:23:17] Cyrel: It's not really that complete for me.

[00:23:19] Cyrel: So I feel like I'm still lacking.

[00:23:21] Cyrel: I still need to sleep like one to two hours.

[00:23:24] Victor: Okay, do you have blackout curtains?

[00:23:26] Cyrel: Yes, we do.

[00:23:27] Victor: Okay, and then air conditioning?

[00:23:29] Cyrel: Yes.

[00:23:30] Cyrel: Okay.

[00:23:30] Victor: I just found out someone on my team, I know they can afford it, trust me, but they just don't have air conditioning?

[00:23:38] Victor: And so it was pretty hot recently.

[00:23:40] Victor: And so she was having a tough time just being there like mentally.

[00:23:45] Victor: But you still can't sleep that well, huh?

[00:23:48] Cyrel: We do have this, what we call the quality sleep, right?

[00:23:51] Cyrel: Where you sleep like nine to five without any interruption.

[00:23:55] Cyrel: So that doesn't really happen to me.

[00:23:57] Cyrel: I still wake up like after two hours or three hours or a minimal noise would wake me.

[00:24:03] Victor: Do you have a sound machine making a little thing a little?

[00:24:07] Victor: Use that for babies.

[00:24:09] Victor: No, you don't have that.

[00:24:10] Victor: Okay.

[00:24:11] Victor: And on the weekend, what do you do?

[00:24:12] Victor: Do you switch to your normal?

[00:24:14] Cyrel: Yes.

[00:24:15] Cyrel: I don't know how I was able to do that.

[00:24:18] Cyrel: But, you know, during on weekends, I feel like my body is normal.

[00:24:22] Cyrel: So I would sleep at like 10 p.m.

[00:24:24] Cyrel: I'd wake up at 6 a.m.

[00:24:26] Victor: So just to recap, then, you kind of, you know, when you started out your career...

[00:24:32] Victor: you had to do a really long commute into BGC for this Ecolab.

[00:24:38] Victor: Ecolab?

[00:24:38] Cyrel: Yes, that's Ecolab.

[00:24:40] Victor: And then you kind of upgraded from that more stability closer to you.

[00:24:45] Victor: And then you went virtual, you're able to make more stay at home.

[00:24:49] Victor: But it's not all ideal yet because now you have loneliness, you have sleep deprivation a little bit.

[00:24:56] Victor: Yeah.

[00:24:57] Victor: I mean, so overall, maybe would you say your life is improving or it's getting worse?

[00:25:03] Cyrel: No, my life is in a better place.

[00:25:06] Cyrel: I will always tell my friends that, you know, even if someone would offer me in a corporate world that they need me back or they would offer like double, like more than what I'm getting now, I still wouldn't go back.

[00:25:20] Cyrel: It just gives me so much peace working from home.

[00:25:23] Cyrel: You know, I get to spend time with my dog.

[00:25:25] Victor: okay i understand yeah it's tiring it's tiring to be out all day like we're doing this recording today you know i spoke to two people before you and i had to take a nap before you come here and i was saying like oh my god like i can't i can't talk to people and if you were in an office i used to work in an office and you know you stand by the water cooler well

[00:25:47] Victor: Hey, how's it going?

[00:25:48] Victor: Good.

[00:25:49] Victor: You know, it's just endless.

[00:25:51] Cyrel: But actually, it's not.

[00:25:53] Cyrel: Things are not doing good or things are not great with you, but you just need to show them that, yeah, everything is perfect.

[00:25:59] Cyrel: I don't have a problem.

[00:26:00] Cyrel: You know, everything is cool.

[00:26:03] Cyrel: You need to pretend like everything is good.

[00:26:06] Victor: Do you find that your lifestyle has also, you know, like, so for example, I know, I know people that make a lot of money in this world, like truly.

[00:26:16] Victor: And.

[00:26:18] Victor: But they don't feel like they're doing any better because along the way, they also go out to nicer places to eat.

[00:26:26] Victor: They buy nicer clothes.

[00:26:27] Victor: They stay at nicer hotels and things like that.

[00:26:30] Victor: Travel more.

[00:26:31] Victor: Do you feel that lifestyle creep for you since becoming a VA, I guess?

[00:26:38] Victor: Or is your lifestyle still very similar to before?

[00:26:41] Cyrel: One key factor for that is that you just need to live within your means.

[00:26:46] Cyrel: So whatever it is that you can afford.

[00:26:48] Victor: Your means are improving.

[00:26:50] Cyrel: Yes, definitely.

[00:26:51] Cyrel: So I could travel like twice or twice in a year out of the country and I could still like travel like in domestic for like two times a year.

[00:27:01] Cyrel: But before...

[00:27:03] Cyrel: Money is not an issue before for me.

[00:27:05] Cyrel: You know, I work in Salesforce, right?

[00:27:07] Cyrel: But it's the time.

[00:27:09] Victor: Right, because you always have to be there, right?

[00:27:10] Victor: Yes.

[00:27:11] Victor: Okay.

[00:27:12] Cyrel: Well, last time I was talking to my clients, Ben, they just came from Japan, right?

[00:27:19] Cyrel: And then I told him, you know, Ben, I would visit Japan as well.

[00:27:24] Cyrel: He suggested a lot of places to visit, a lot of food recommendations.

[00:27:30] Cyrel: But I told him, Ben, I would bring my work with me.

[00:27:33] Cyrel: And he said, you know, it's fine.

[00:27:35] Cyrel: You do you.

[00:27:36] Cyrel: You just need to be productive and give me results.

[00:27:40] Victor: you just need to do your work but you can enjoy yeah i mean i know ben he's pretty objective like that to be honest with you not every client in this space is like that there's a lot of people the tendency and i get where it's coming from they try to look over your shoulder and go are it's a little bit of micromanagement of course you know you have to earn the trust along the way too definitely

[00:28:03] Cyrel: okay it wasn't like that in the first time it wasn't like that in the beginning yes in the beginning it wasn't like that so i was able to do that i guess we're already like one year and six months together working together yes so i really need to earn his trust were there times in the beginning that you wanted to quit

[00:28:24] Cyrel: Actually, yes, during my first virtual work.

[00:28:28] Cyrel: So it's like the first company that trusted me, so I wanted to treasure it.

[00:28:34] Cyrel: Okay, and then I was given a task to call 500 clients a day.

[00:28:39] Victor: Okay, cold calling.

[00:28:41] Cyrel: Yeah, cold calling.

[00:28:42] Cyrel: So I was thinking, maybe this is my first step.

[00:28:46] Cyrel: This is just a baby step for me to get where I should be heading in the future.

[00:28:50] Cyrel: And then after that, 500 clients per day.

[00:28:54] Cyrel: You will only be given a 30 minutes break.

[00:28:58] Victor: Yeah.

[00:28:58] Victor: That's like BPO.

[00:29:00] Victor: That's very structured.

[00:29:01] Cyrel: And then we do have this appeal with the clients, but you will hear your manager like whispering during your calls.

[00:29:11] Cyrel: He's inside the calls.

[00:29:13] Cyrel: So it's kind of like, oh my gosh, he's like monitoring everything that I say.

[00:29:17] Cyrel: You know, the clients cannot hear my former boss, but I could hear everything.

[00:29:23] Cyrel: Yes, what you're saying to the client is...

[00:29:25] Victor: Also, they'll give you live coaching.

[00:29:27] Victor: Yes.

[00:29:28] Cyrel: And it's actually during the time that I'm actually talking with the client.

[00:29:33] Cyrel: So it's like, oh my gosh, how would I handle my boss and the client, something like that.

[00:29:37] Cyrel: And then after my shift, I will be asked to extend for like one hour to two hours without getting paid.

[00:29:45] Victor: And this is virtual work?

[00:29:46] Cyrel: Yes.

[00:29:48] Victor: So with the agency here, the company here?

[00:29:50] Victor: Yes.

[00:29:50] Cyrel: It's actually direct with the company.

[00:29:53] Cyrel: So there's no agency with that.

[00:29:54] Cyrel: So when Angel told me that maybe you could try with Trendly and then, yeah.

[00:30:02] Victor: Interesting.

[00:30:03] Victor: Okay.

[00:30:04] Victor: I mean, we started out with the appointments that are thing, but we didn't do 500 calls.

[00:30:09] Victor: We did 150 to 200.

[00:30:12] Victor: But even then, it doesn't work.

[00:30:14] Victor: You're in sales.

[00:30:15] Victor: You're in relationship management.

[00:30:16] Victor: No, it doesn't work.

[00:30:16] Victor: You cold call people.

[00:30:17] Victor: You just annoy them.

[00:30:19] Victor: And if you do get a calendar booking, if you do get a lead, it's very low quality.

[00:30:25] Victor: So most of the time, they don't show up, right?

[00:30:27] Cyrel: Yes.

[00:30:28] Cyrel: Yeah.

[00:30:29] Cyrel: And they don't answer.

[00:30:31] Victor: No, they don't.

[00:30:32] Victor: And that's why, so were you on an auto dialer?

[00:30:34] Cyrel: Yes, we do have the system for that.

[00:30:36] Victor: Yeah, so say at least the people we hired, they would just choose their own number to call.

[00:30:41] Victor: But yeah, you have these other systems for the listeners who don't know this, but...

[00:30:45] Victor: Basically, the phone system rotates and dials numbers for you.

[00:30:49] Victor: So as soon as one call ends, whether the guy hangs up on you or not, another one starts.

[00:30:55] Victor: I visited a call center here in person, and I was surprised.

[00:30:58] Victor: So you mentioned you don't have colleagues to talk to, but when I visited a BPO here,

[00:31:04] Victor: A lot of people sitting together and they're picking up the phone answering.

[00:31:08] Victor: They also get a 30 minute break in the lunchroom.

[00:31:11] Victor: And it's like this big red atomic lock.

[00:31:13] Victor: It's like a nuclear bomb.

[00:31:15] Victor: It's like a countdown.

[00:31:16] Victor: And then they got to go back to work.

[00:31:17] Victor: And I asked the country manager, I says, well, this looks like a fun environment.

[00:31:22] Victor: Like people can chat with each other.

[00:31:24] Victor: They're right next to each other, right?

[00:31:26] Victor: Make some small talk, but he said, no, they can't because the phone doesn't stop ringing.

[00:31:32] Victor: So the moment your shift starts, it's like... Yeah, so that's how it works, right?

[00:31:36] Victor: Hello, welcome to company.

[00:31:39] Victor: And then as soon as you hang out, hello, welcome to...

[00:31:41] Victor: Thank you for holding...

[00:31:43] Cyrel: If that would be your like first time trying the virtual job, first it would be fine.

[00:31:50] Cyrel: Okay, you might gonna think that this is just a stepping stone for me to get me where I really wanted to be headed.

[00:31:58] Cyrel: But at some point, I'm starting to doubt if my decision was good, you know, living my corporate job just to do a calls like 500 for clients.

[00:32:10] Cyrel: Like some clients are rude.

[00:32:13] Victor: Yeah.

[00:32:14] Victor: So my suggestion in this industry is you have to find a good horse, right?

[00:32:20] Victor: So oftentimes it's not about our individual ability.

[00:32:25] Victor: So my point is like, if you work for a very profitable company, you work for a small team, you get in at the right time.

[00:32:33] Victor: When that company grows, you will grow.

[00:32:35] Victor: You will get the right, you know, growth and salary and benefits.

[00:32:40] Victor: You'll have people that report into you.

[00:32:42] Victor: The challenge with doing that in the virtual space is a lot of people choose the wrong horse.

[00:32:48] Victor: Maybe they don't have an option, so they choose a client that's too small.

[00:32:51] Victor: So I just had a guess earlier here, he did work and the client didn't even pay him.

[00:32:56] Victor: Because they're just small, you know, some of the small realtors out there, no offense to realtors, but they hire like 15, 20 hours a week, and then they ghost the staff after a while.

[00:33:05] Victor: So it's very much like you have to find the right company.

[00:33:08] Victor: You know, we were talking about this before, you know, we started recording.

[00:33:13] Victor: So I think people here think that...

[00:33:17] Victor: the virtual space the more i do i go sideways i go wide so maybe i find a couple of gigs and i can make more but that's actually very short term if you find uh the right horse and you try to go deep then you will your life will structurally change okay okay so that's interesting what do you like to do in your spare time then

[00:33:42] Victor: Now, I guess between 5 p.m. when you wake up to when you go back to sleep.

[00:33:46] Cyrel: Yeah, I'm actually into cooking.

[00:33:48] Cyrel: So I like to experiment on food.

[00:33:52] Cyrel: And I also like to eat healthy.

[00:33:54] Cyrel: Watch what I eat.

[00:33:56] Victor: What do you like to eat that's healthy?

[00:33:59] Victor: Me too.

[00:34:00] Cyrel: Really?

[00:34:01] Victor: Yes, I try to.

[00:34:02] Cyrel: Well, I just make sure that I have enough protein every day.

[00:34:07] Cyrel: I have enough fruits every day.

[00:34:09] Cyrel: And I just make sure that my meal is balanced every day.

[00:34:14] Cyrel: So there's meat, there's vegetables, a little rice.

[00:34:19] Victor: Yeah, nothing wrong with rice.

[00:34:20] Cyrel: Okay.

[00:34:21] Cyrel: And then you still have time to have your fruits and then water.

[00:34:25] Cyrel: I'm not really into drinking sodas.

[00:34:28] Victor: Yeah.

[00:34:29] Cyrel: And coffee, a lot of people would ask me work graveyard shift, but you don't drink coffee that much.

[00:34:36] Cyrel: Yes, I don't.

[00:34:37] Cyrel: But I'm more on into teas.

[00:34:39] Victor: Okay.

[00:34:40] Victor: Okay.

[00:34:41] Victor: I see.

[00:34:41] Cyrel: So that's just like basically my spare time.

[00:34:44] Cyrel: I'd like to check on my shelf if I have enough supplies.

[00:34:49] Victor: Okay.

[00:34:49] Victor: I see.

[00:34:50] Victor: Well, you sound like someone who's managing a well.

[00:34:52] Victor: I do know because you've been doing this for over two years now.

[00:34:56] Victor: I think if you wanted to, you could keep it up for another...

[00:35:01] Victor: to even more years it's just whether you want to or not right but do you feel like you have more options than before now in terms of your career yes definitely

[00:35:14] Cyrel: So I would also like to try more on social media marketing.

[00:35:17] Cyrel: So it's kind of trend right now, right?

[00:35:20] Cyrel: So I've been watching YouTube tutorials and a lot of tools that are offering or available in the market on social media.

[00:35:31] Cyrel: So I've been watching how to do it as well.

[00:35:34] Cyrel: And also recently my interest with legal company.

[00:35:39] Cyrel: what company legal company legal companies okay okay so there are teams who hire like and drafting contracts taking contracts with the clients it's like i'm interested or i'm curious what's inside or what are they gonna be doing with that type of um contracts between the legal uh teams and clients so it kind of like interests me

[00:36:05] Victor: so my view is this anything operational depending on what kind of operation let's say it's review contracts as long as the volume's not that big if it's a high ticket low volume then you can uh have better work-life balance the thing is right now like if you have to call your clients during the day and you have to get through a certain number of calls

[00:36:28] Victor: You have to be there.

[00:36:29] Victor: You can't manage your schedule.

[00:36:30] Victor: But that's because that's the sales portion.

[00:36:33] Victor: To me, the best paying jobs are always going to be sales and marketing.

[00:36:37] Victor: So if you're in social media marketing, I will learn, and anyone listening, I will get really good at meta ads because advertisement is not going anywhere.

[00:36:46] Victor: The people I've paid the highest in this industry, it's not even close.

[00:36:49] Victor: It's ads.

[00:36:51] Victor: So ads.

[00:36:52] Victor: So that's how to basically just...

[00:36:55] Victor: You know, you're right here doing the relationship management of sales.

[00:36:59] Victor: Just think one step before, two steps before.

[00:37:01] Victor: How do you get them to show up?

[00:37:03] Victor: Because you're calling an existing book about how you get new clients to show up.

[00:37:07] Victor: Yeah.

[00:37:08] Victor: Sales and marketing is not easy, but I think if you stay in that, it's potentially very lucrative, provided you have the right horse and things like that.

[00:37:17] Victor: But anything you want to say to the world or aspiring, maybe people who are

[00:37:24] Victor: say they're at a local company now and they're not sure if they want to do remote work.

[00:37:29] Victor: You don't have to tell them to do it or not, but like, what would you tell them to consider?

[00:37:33] Cyrel: Okay, so for anyone who are thinking into transitioning from corporate to the virtual industry, right?

[00:37:41] Cyrel: So nobody expects you to be perfect on day one.

[00:37:45] Cyrel: It's okay to create mistakes or do something that you would really like and you're not sure with the result of it.

[00:37:53] Cyrel: And then just trust the process because eventually you're going to get there.

[00:37:58] Victor: How long do you think they'll take to get there?

[00:38:01] Victor: How long does someone need to...

[00:38:03] Victor: invest the patience and the grit and everything to get there?

[00:38:06] Cyrel: Well, it actually depends on that certain person, but maybe six months to one year, you know, before you think about leaving your current job, then you have to prepare yourself first.

[00:38:20] Cyrel: You do not leave your job and then start preparing after you leave your job.

[00:38:24] Cyrel: So you need to do some research in advance.

[00:38:27] Cyrel: What type of industry are you trying to get into?

[00:38:31] Victor: Walls High, thank you so much for coming here and sharing your perspectives.

[00:38:35] Cyrel: Thank you.